Discussing Homosexuality

I created this topic so that people can discuss this without going off topic.

In reply to AOE_Fan:

AOE_Fan wrote:I wonder what are your sources of information, real people or just your imagination and I'm still pondering whether you think your opinion is what people think themselves or not...

Basic logic is my source of information. Most answers are already in our minds.

AOE_Fan wrote:

iliander wrote:If a gay person gets insulted because I say gayness is bad, then it only shows the gay person's insecurity.

Let's apply this logic to other racist things:
"I don't like blacks, so they know that being black is bad and not right. They should feel insecure."

If you belive in that "converting" thing, you really should see and talk to a gay person and get back to reality. Anyway, I'm locking this topic because it's really off-topic.

That's failed logic right there. I never said I don't like gays, I said I think gayness is bad. You can't compare a race to a sexual disorientation in this case.

There're many gay people who healed their mind and became straight. So it clearly is "curable".

Please, stop using "we" and "our" words that extensively as you know that no-one here thinks alike... And of course I can compare races to sexual minorities as they are both under the influence of racism.

There're many gay people who healed their mind and became straight. So it clearly is "curable".

Aaand, how many of them do you actually know? Zero, right? Actually it's funny how you want to "cure" gays so badly but you still complain about school making people "mindless sheeps".

AOE_Fan wrote:Please, stop using "we" and "our" words that extensively as you know that no-one here thinks alike... And of course I can compare races to sexual minorities as they are both under the influence of racism.

So I can't use "our" to state an opinion on something that has to do with "all of us"? I didn't say "we all think gayness is bad on this forum". And no, you were wrong in the comparison, as I already explained... The whole problem lies in the word "racism". You just use it to end a discussion and make people think I am a gay hating racist, or whatever. Actual RACEism is illogical and basically means that you dislike the personalities of a certain race leading to negative behavior towards people of that race. "GAYism" (homophobia) is the same as RACEism but towards gay people instead of a certain race. Therefore it is illogical as well, you hate gays and act bad towards them, which does not help gay people. The fact of the matter is that what I am saying is not homophobic. What I am saying is that I think homosexuality is not good and should be treated as a mental disease. If I were to say that being black is not good it wouldn't make sense because that is their race, the very ones who they are (the human bodies). I am talking about the bad attribute called gayness that some people develop. Just like some people are born with a tendency to do a different bad thing, we all are born with bad tendencies that we have to learn to control/destroy/get rid of. Maybe black people genetically have a higher tendency to do X bad thing than a different race and vice versa but that doesn't make the race bad nor give you the right to go hate them or whatever. We all can change our minds, we, the spirits, are limited and influenced by the mind, but can change the mind through the system of the mind.

Aaand, how many of them do you actually know? Zero, right? Actually it's funny how you want to "cure" gays so badly but you still complain about school making people "mindless sheeps".

It doesn't matter if I know them or not. Facts are facts, and I can read lol. Yes we are made stupid from as soon as we can understand, sheeps that do not understand why gayness is wrong lolololol.

If I were to say that being black is not good it wouldn't make sense because that is their race, the very ones who they are (the human bodies).

Are you aware, ili, that science is becoming more and more certain that everybody is essentially a bisexual, and that the balance between heterosexualism and homosexualism is a largely genetic one? There's no hard proof yet, as the gene responsible for making this decision has yet to be identified, but it's at least 90% certain that genes are responsible. So, actually, you're most likely wrong, and homosexualism (or rather bisexualism with homosexual preferences) is as much a part of somebody's self as his ethnicity is.


peugeot407

Sorry iliander, I don't agree and you are wrong and homophobic. Still, you can change yourself if you just believe (nothing religious necessarily) but you should remember who you really are or meant to be.

peugeot407 wrote:Are you aware, ili, that science is becoming more and more certain that everybody is essentially a bisexual, and that the balance between heterosexualism and homosexualism is a largely genetic one? There's no hard proof yet, as the gene responsible for making this decision has yet to be identified, but it's at least 90% certain that genes are responsible. So, actually, you're most likely wrong, and homosexualism (or rather bisexualism with homosexual preferences) is as much a part of somebody's self as his ethnicity is.

Everyone has the ability to be either heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual. But I'm quite sure not everyone is bisexual all the time... Genetics isn't a determining factor, it might be a minor factor though in a way where it simply increases one's chances of becoming homosexual. But that doesn't justify homosexuality.

You should take a look at this: http://www.hollanddavis.com/?p=3647

"Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way."

"Identical twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal conditions.  If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay."

"The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors."

"Neutral academic surveys show there is substantial change. About half of the homosexual/bisexual population (in a non-therapeutic environment) moves towards heterosexuality over a lifetime. About 3% of the present heterosexual population once firmly believed themselves to be homosexual or bisexual."

"They found that from 16 to 17-years-old, if a person had a romantic attraction to the same sex, almost all had switched one year later."

"Numbers of people who have changed towards exclusive heterosexuality are greater than current numbers of bisexuals and homosexuals combined. In other words, ex-gays outnumber actual gays."

You should also read this: http://io9.com/5967426/scientists-confirm-that-homosexuality-is-not-genetic--but-it-arises-in-the-womb

So you are wrong.

AOE_Fan wrote:Sorry iliander, I don't agree and you are wrong and homophobic. Still, you can change yourself if you just believe (nothing religious necessarily) but you should remember who you really are or meant to be.

Nobody is meant to be gay. It's a disorientation that is part of a large agenda where they try to decrease our testosterone and increase our estrogen (estrogen like things are everywhere!!! plastics etc, they put it everywhere). They try to destroy manliness so they can weaken mankind.

They want you unhealthy, weak and feminized.

...yet you do not know who "they" are.


peugeot407

Hmm, I'm delighted to see a source to back up your opinions but the research doesn't clearly say the amount of people in the research. I could quote researches that prove sexuality is determined by genes but I won't because it's just another research. I think everyone should be suspicious about researches that "prove" opposite things. I mean, there are still researches that claim global warming is a myth while it's bloody obvious. And by the way, I don't really care how or why there are sexual minorities, all I want is equality.

I'm curious who "they" are as well: politicians, gods or your imagination? I have worked in a medicine factory and I don't recall seeing estrogen as ingredient.

AOE_Fan wrote:Hmm, I'm delighted to see a source to back up your opinions but the research doesn't clearly say the amount of people in the research. I could quote researches that prove sexuality is determined by genes but I won't because it's just another research. I think everyone should be suspicious about researches that "prove" opposite things. I mean, there are still researches that claim global warming is a myth while it's bloody obvious. And by the way, I don't really care how or why there are sexual minorities, all I want is equality.

"Twin registers are the foundation of modern twin studies. They are now very large, and exist in many countries. A gigantic European twin register with a projected 600,000 members is being organized, but one of the largest in use is in Australia, with more than 25,000 twins on the books."  

Of course sexuality is determined by genes... we're either born as male or female (in most cases).  

There is equality... gay people have just as much right to marry a person of the opposite sex as straight people.

I'm curious who "they" are as well: politicians, gods or your imagination? I have worked in a medicine factory and I don't recall seeing estrogen as ingredient.  

peugeot407 wrote:...yet you do not know who "they" are.

"They" are those who are part of the nephilim bloodline, the ancient race of hybrid giants that was a result of the watchers coming down from the heavens to earth interbreeding with human women (the great flood was used to wipe out the genetically wicked creatures). The nephilim characteristics are no longer visible today. "They" are the elite manipulating the masses into the acceptance of satanism without anyone realizing.

And I was talking about things like xenoestrogens etc. Things that imitate estrogens.

Idiocy.

The fact that you cannot even see your perspective as an opinion makes any discussion irrelevant, all "facts" stated are carefully cherry-picked without the myriad solid counterarguments even mentioned, and you're masking your own bigotry behind a veneer of science so that your worldview remains secure.

It is much easier to simply exist alongside others, even if you personally would not agree with their actions. Homosexuality is an utterly harmless inclination, and the fact that some people have fluid sexualities that change over time does not mean that they had a "true orientation" that was being veiled by some ancient Semitic giant-alien-angels' insidious homosexual conversion to depopulate the Earth of humans.

Logic has gone out the window LONG before you come to that conclusion.

Synecdoche wrote:Idiocy.

The fact that you cannot even see your perspective as an opinion makes any discussion irrelevant, all "facts" stated are carefully cherry-picked without the myriad solid counterarguments even mentioned, and you're masking your own bigotry behind a veneer of science so that your worldview remains secure.

It is much easier to simply exist alongside others, even if you personally would not agree with their actions. Homosexuality is an utterly harmless inclination, and the fact that some people have fluid sexualities that change over time does not mean that they had a "true orientation" that was being veiled by some ancient Semitic giant-alien-angels' insidious homosexual conversion to depopulate the Earth of humans.

Logic has gone out the window LONG before you come to that conclusion.

 

I said many times that this is just my opinion...

of course we exist alongside others, did I say we should genocide all the gays??? dunno how often I will still have to repeat this... I'M JUST SAYING WHY I THINK GAYNESS IS BAD. I am not a bigot

and what you said didn't make sense, oh come on man you're twisting my words...

I am convinced homosexuality, feminism, porn are part of a satanic agenda though...

we will see in the end who is right (plentiful laughter ensued)...

If you feel that I'm twisting your words it's possible that I misunderstood you or that you didn't communicate your ideas perfectly, but from where I'm standing you are definitely a bigot. Now, that's entirely within your rights to be, and the same applies to your opinion, but it makes me angry to see this kind of thing pushed as scientific fact. Anger is always a little blinding, so I may be acting too harshly, but could you please just keep your opinion on such issues of identity to yourself while on this particular forum? It's highly irritating to me, so I can't imagine how it would make someone who's actually gay feel if they saw it here, especially if they're already abused or persecuted as a result of their orientation elsewhere in their lives. It's a forum for a game that everyone can enjoy, so we should maintain a safe and welcoming environment to all who might be interested in the mod.

iliander wrote:"They" are those who are part of the nephilim bloodline, the ancient race of hybrid giants that was a result of the watchers coming down from the heavens to earth interbreeding with human women (the great flood was used to wipe out the genetically wicked creatures). The nephilim characteristics are no longer visible today. "They" are the elite manipulating the masses into the acceptance of satanism without anyone realizing.

BAHAHAHAHAHA... I know exactly from where you got that (remember that I also like to watch this kind of stuff though I'm not stupid enough to believe it) and I can't believe you just took everything in as the absolute truth.

So sad... I'm gonna add this bullshit you keep saying to my signatures, its too funny.
Here's another one: From where does iliander take information and proof for his arguments?

iliander wrote:Basic logic is my source of information. Most answers are already in our minds.

How can you argue with someone thinking like this.

Drama at the door, remember? Your vendetta against iliander will not be tolerated here. It's meaningless petty bickering, especially on your own part, and there's no reason to persist. I believe you're walking on thin ice here already according to your warning level. This topic should be left at rest for everyone's sake.

Oooooookay, to discuss the actual topic, my views on homosexuality are mixed. I am Catholic, so I have a religious imperative of sorts to see gay marriage in the Church as functionally wrong (key words: in the Church, i.e. civil unions or marriages in other faiths are fine) but my views on homosexuals themselves are ambivalent. I do not tolerate discrimination.
To quote the Catechism:
Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
However, it goes on to say:
The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
Thus, this neatly sums up my views, if a bit too conservatively. I have really no issue whatsoever with homosexuals. Little weird? Yes. Okay to ridicule? No.
P.S. Sorry for the wall of text. Thought it might help spark a conversation.

Mandos wrote:BAHAHAHAHAHA... I know exactly from where you got that (remember that I also like to watch this kind of stuff though I'm not stupid enough to believe it) and I can't believe you just took everything in as the absolute truth.

So sad... I'm gonna add this bullshit you keep saying to my signatures, its too funny.
Here's another one: From where does iliander take information and proof for his arguments?

dude it's the truth. all the different ancient texts say the same. and it is clearly noticeable today. evil spirits influence a lot of the world today, and because of people like you they can continue. anyway whoever is right you're kinda childish right now lmao... ^^

This is the exact same thing I was telling everyone before 21 december 2012. I was all "oh, you think I'm crazy? you'll all see, the apocalypse is coming!"...
And then, bum, disappointment. I had enough conspiracy crap.

The ancient Mayans did not predict the end of the world at the end of every Long Calendar. There had already been several B'ak'tun changes pre-2012. Most Ancient Aliens stuff is a result of exactly that kind of pseudoscientific sensationalism with a decided lack of objective research and a completely inconsistent sense of cultural perspective.

The worst bit of these kind of programs is not the pseudoscience, but the pseudoscientists. It seems that if you stuff enough people with an honourary doctorate into a documentary, it will cause people to believe the most abject nonsense...


peugeot407

As Thomas said, the Mayans did NOT predict the end of the world. That's what a bunch of retards made out of it.

However, the ancient aliens is NOT crap, and these are not "pseudoscientists"...

"from the heavens" = "not from earth" = "extraterrestrial" ....

Oh god... it's so obvious...

Spoiler:

the history as we know it is BULLSHIT and giant skeleton remains etc have been suppressed etc because it does not match with the darwinian evolution. this is an agenda open your eyes.

I still haven't seen any good evidence that proves the existence of aliens, and I think that is why so many others don't believe in aliens either. It isn't just cognitive dissonance. The supposed alien artifacts that I have heard about are faked or completely misinterpreted by those who only see what they want to see. The documentaries are completely unconvincing as well, as the "scientists" tend to jump to conclusions, and they end up making very weak links between and artifact and the alien involvement. Those who strongly believe in aliens are guilty of cognitive dissonance as well, as they often get upset when people challenge (or in their words "suppress") their beliefs. In fact it seems that there are cases where "alien artifacts" are suppressed by those who believe they are real so that they do not get properly tested and then probably disproved.

By the way, I find this website quite interesting as it works to disproves many archaeology-related conspiracy theories, and not just the alien ones: http://www.badarchaeology.com/.

super7700 wrote:I still haven't seen any good evidence that proves the existence of aliens, and I think that is why so many others don't believe in aliens either. It isn't just cognitive dissonance. The supposed alien artifacts that I have heard about are faked or completely misinterpreted by those who only see what they want to see. The documentaries are completely unconvincing as well, as the "scientists" tend to jump to conclusions, and they end up making very weak links between and artifact and the alien involvement. Those who strongly believe in aliens are guilty of cognitive dissonance as well, as they often get upset when people challenge (or in their words "suppress") their beliefs. In fact it seems that there are cases where "alien artifacts" are suppressed by those who believe they are real so that they do not get properly tested and then probably disproved.  

By the way, I find this website quite interesting as it works to disproves many archaeology-related conspiracy theories, and not just the alien ones: http://www.badarchaeology.com/.

"Supposed alien artifacts"... do global ancient historical accounts belong to that? Come on man, the ancients had vast knowledge about everything, and clearly talk about flying cities, fiery chariots, even rockets and atomic weapons.


Check 8:30. Shamash tablet.

Great series and channel btw, still gotta watch 99% of it but always forget it.

The ancients also thought that the heart was used for thinking, and that it was impossible for a man to climb Mount Olympus. I'm not trying to say that everything ancient is by definition nonsense, but I am trying to say that one should try to use his common sense in order to be critical about everything one reads, including those things that happen to be ancient.


peugeot407

peugeot407 wrote:The ancients also thought that the heart was used for thinking, and that it was impossible for a man to climb Mount Olympus. I'm not trying to say that everything ancient is by definition nonsense, but I am trying to say that one should try to use his common sense in order to be critical about everything one reads, including those things that happen to be ancient.

I'm quite sure the ancients that actually possessed advanced knowledge did NOT think the heart was used for thinking. Seriously, who believed that? Also, the ancient Greeks are far from advanced compared to much older civilizations, BEFORE the flood.

(some laughter ensued), thanks for the red pill ili