Re: The History Thread

by Losinal Fri 15 Jul 2011 - 21:23

TORO TORA TORA

by Nero Fri 15 Jul 2011 - 21:42

The Dude will love this: On this day, this happened, "1410 – The Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania defeated the Monastic State of the Teutonic Knights in the Battle of Grunwald, the decisive engagement of the Polish–Lithuanian–Teutonic War." Directly from Wikipedia.

by **peugeot407** Fri 15 Jul 2011 - 22:06

Oh, Dude can't stop talking about Tannenberg/Grünwald...

On Japanese History: I don't know much about it, but I have recently downloaded Shogun 2: Total War, and I must say it's brilliant. Not just the gameplay (which would be offtopic) but also the entire environment, the choice of units (even though there are so little), the idea of trying to get to the Shogunate, it's just lovely.

peugeot407

by **The Dude** Sat 16 Jul 2011 - 4:37

Robert it's just Grunwald! No, German characters, say it right. Razz

It was a great victory for Poland-Lithuania. In fact for the next few centuries, Prussia was nothing but a province to the crown of Poland.

Although what's better a full scale successful invasion of Russia, a major victory marking the start of Polish dominance, or The Battle of Vienna where the largest cavalry charge in history took place, AND Jan Sobieski saved Christendom.

Man I love bragging about my nationality. Razz

by arcalion Sat 16 Jul 2011 - 4:53

wow i am enjoy this

by **peugeot407** Sat 16 Jul 2011 - 5:37

The idea that the Ottoman Empire would threaten Christianity is one of the many delusions needed to keep up this national pride, it seems. Actually the Ottomans were by far the most religiously tolerant nation at the time, with Muslims, Christians, Jews and Atheists all present in important governmental and military jobs.

peugeot407

by Nero Sat 16 Jul 2011 - 12:54

I find that religion is just an excuse for violence. Good to see people being patriotic about their nation, as long as it doesn't lead to violence then patriotism is good.

by **The Dude** Sat 16 Jul 2011 - 13:16

@Robert, yes because the Turks are always an accepting and kind nation, we Europeans should give in to their invasion. Rolling Eyes

by Paco the Great Sat 16 Jul 2011 - 18:49

I like the Edo period of Japan. Did you know Ieyasu was planning to send ships to Mexico and the Philippines to conquer the Spanish territories?

by Nero Sat 16 Jul 2011 - 19:24

And here I thought that they didn't want to venture out of their land.

by **peugeot407** Sat 16 Jul 2011 - 21:43

@Dude: That is the most controversial thing in 20th century history, and there is hardly any proof that it actually happened, and that IF it happened, whether it would qualify as a genocide.

But what does it matter? Does the Mussolini period make Italy a bad country? Or do their Manchurian conquests make Japan a bad country? Does Napoleon's strafe through Europe make France a bad country? And what about China and the Tibet issue, does that make them a bad country? No, of course not. My point is that while there have been less tolerant Sultans around at times, the vast majority of times the Ottoman Empire was easily the most religiously and culturally tolerant nation in Europe, and probably the world.

peugeot407

by **The Dude** Sun 17 Jul 2011 - 3:14

But does that give them the right to invade Europe?

by Losinal Sun 17 Jul 2011 - 3:16

No it didn't give them the right, but the (I think) the main thing here, is that if the Ottomans did win, Christianity would bot of been eliminated, since the religious tolerance.

by **The Dude** Sun 17 Jul 2011 - 3:20

Still, not nation should have the right to control all of Europe.

~~Except Poland~~ :lol:

Anyways, Pope said Jan Sobieski is savior of Christendom, good enough for me. :lol:

by Losinal Sun 17 Jul 2011 - 3:24

I'm Anglican Razz

To me, the Ottoman machine wouldn't be able to invade the English Islands, The British Navy is too powerful, and not to mention the crazy defensive castle line Henry VIII made would make an invasion difficult none the least.

by **peugeot407** Sun 17 Jul 2011 - 3:25

Popes said Galileo Galilei was a liar, even when given plenty of evidence. I'm not trying to question the credibility of ALL Popes, but there were a couple of them who had no idea at all of what the world is actually like.

peugeot407

by **The Dude** Sun 17 Jul 2011 - 3:30

Pope John Paul II said Galileo was right. Razz

by Paco the Great Sun 17 Jul 2011 - 4:36

Sultan Abd El Hamid was an evil man.

by **Hoop Thrower** Sun 17 Jul 2011 - 4:38

Paco the Great wrote:I like the Edo period of Japan. Did you know Ieyasu was planning to send ships to Mexico and the Philippines to conquer the Spanish territories?

Wait, what? You mean the Red Seal Ships? They weren't conquering expeditions, they just were trade ships (though it's true they were greatly involved in battles through Southeast Asia as they frequently offered themselves as mercenaries or pirates too.)
On the expedition to america, it was a diplomatic mission, to set trade treaties and such, but since Tokugawa was taking all the christians out of Japan, they christian kingdoms didn't want to set trade with Japan, wich partly also made the country even more Isolationist than it already was...

by Paco the Great Sun 17 Jul 2011 - 4:42

I said he planned to, not actually DID.

He got William Adams and his Dutch crew to build two ships for him.

I'm reading a book about William Adams. The book, by the way, is Samurai William by Giles Milton. Very interesting.

by **Hoop Thrower** Sun 17 Jul 2011 - 4:47

Paco the Great wrote:I said he planned to, not actually DID.

He got William Adams and his Dutch crew to build two ships for him.

I'm reading a book about William Adams. The book, by the way, is Samurai William by Giles Milton. Very interesting.

I still say it's kind of a big exaggeration, he indeed did use those ships, but only on a diplomatic mission, he didn't have expansionist aspirations.
BTW, model of the ship:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Sanjuanbautista.jpg

by Paco the Great Sun 17 Jul 2011 - 5:00

He did have ambitions, though. Or at least the Spanish thought he did.

by **The Dude** Mon 18 Jul 2011 - 15:09

Well just because the Spanish thought he did, doesn't mean he did think so.

by Nero Mon 18 Jul 2011 - 16:03

The Spanish aren't always right you know, iliander is, don't forget it :lol: .

by **iliander** Mon 18 Jul 2011 - 21:13

:lol: Very good, Nero. It seems like you're making progress. :lol:

Spoiler:

Who wants to talk about Atlantis? :lol:

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